[ml-admin] Merging the architecture lists to opensuse-arch

[Henne Vogelsang]

Hey,

we are currently trying to reduce the amount of communication channels
we provide. Because of this I would like to merge the 4 architecture
lists into one list called opensuse-arch.

If nobody objects until the 15th of November 12:00 UTC I will merge the
lists. You don't have to do anything except rewriting your filter if you
use one.

Thanks in advance for your consideration.

Henne

[Joop Boonen]

Post by Henne Vogelsang
Hey,
we are currently trying to reduce the amount of communication channels

we provide. Because of this I would like to merge the 4 architecture
lists into one list called opensuse-arch.

Post by Henne Vogelsang
If nobody objects until the 15th of November 12:00 UTC I will merge the

lists. You don't have to do anything except rewriting your filter if you
use one.
Wouldn't it be best to leave the arm mailing list as is until the arm port
has been completed?

Post by Henne Vogelsang
Thanks in advance for your consideration.
Henne
--
Mailing List Admin
http://lists.opensuse.org
--

Regards,

Joop.

[Henne Vogelsang]

Hey,

Post by Henne Vogelsang
we are currently trying to reduce the amount of communication channels
we provide. Because of this I would like to merge the 4 architecture
lists into one list called opensuse-arch.
If nobody objects until the 15th of November 12:00 UTC I will merge the
lists. You don't have to do anything except rewriting your filter if you
use one.

I would definitive unsubscribe from such a list if the majority of mails is
not interessting for me.

The ppc, amd64 and ia64 lists didn't have any traffic in 2010 and 2011.
I would like to have some point for people to go for non x86
architecture specific stuff.

Henne

[Joop Boonen]

Hi,

Post by Henne Vogelsang

Post by Henne Vogelsang
we are currently trying to reduce the amount of communication channels
we provide. Because of this I would like to merge the 4 architecture
lists into one list called opensuse-arch.
If nobody objects until the 15th of November 12:00 UTC I will merge the
lists. You don't have to do anything except rewriting your filter if you
use one.

I would definitive unsubscribe from such a list if the majority of mails is
not interessting for me.

The ppc, amd64 and ia64 lists didn't have any traffic in 2010 and 2011.
I would like to have some point for people to go for non x86
architecture specific stuff.

There was some recent activity to revive ppc openSUSE, so if arm stays
ppc should probably stay as well.
amd64 is mainstream now, so that's different I guess.

I agree.

I think it's best to have separate mailing lists for different architectures.

I think traffic wise it also safes bandwidth. Only people that are
interested in a specific mailing list will get this mail and not traffic
they don't want.

The ppc mailing list will be very interesting again when the AmigaOne
X1000 and Netbook will be released.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOne_X1000
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=781936
If this ends up in an active mailing list where also ARM resides it's
difficult to filter, I'm subscribed to both.

Andreas
--
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer; HRB 16746 AG Nürnberg
--

Regards,

Joop.

[Richard (MQ)]

Post by Joop Boonen

Hi,

Post by Henne Vogelsang

Post by Henne Vogelsang
we are currently trying to reduce the amount of communication channels
we provide. Because of this I would like to merge the 4 architecture
lists into one list called opensuse-arch.
If nobody objects until the 15th of November 12:00 UTC I will merge the
lists. You don't have to do anything except rewriting your filter if you
use one.

I would definitive unsubscribe from such a list if the majority of mails is
not interessting for me.

The ppc, amd64 and ia64 lists didn't have any traffic in 2010 and 2011.
I would like to have some point for people to go for non x86
architecture specific stuff.

There was some recent activity to revive ppc openSUSE, so if arm stays
ppc should probably stay as well.
amd64 is mainstream now, so that's different I guess.

I agree.
I think it's best to have separate mailing lists for different architectures.
I think traffic wise it also safes bandwidth. Only people that are
interested in a specific mailing list will get this mail and not traffic
they don't want.
The ppc mailing list will be very interesting again when the AmigaOne
X1000 and Netbook will be released.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOne_X1000
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=781936
If this ends up in an active mailing list where also ARM resides it's
difficult to filter, I'm subscribed to both.

If / when the AmigaOne X1000 arrives there will certainly be a new PPC
platform, but whether we can persuade the community to re-start the PPC
version of openSuSE Linux is another matter entirely. FWIW, the argument
for dropping it a few years back was that the usage had dwindled to
insignificant numbers (ISTR around 20 downloads / month) - I couldn't
really argue with that.

My expectation is that there won't be another official PPC version at
all, though maybe we'll have enough momentum for an unofficial one - in
which case retention of this list will be vindicated. It all depends on
whether the machine is ever launched - time will tell.

Meantime a merged list seems to me to be the wrong way to go: keep lists
that are active or might reasonably be expected to become so and kill
the others, effectively merging into -project and -factory.

[Joop Boonen]

Post by Richard (MQ)

Post by Joop Boonen

Hi,

Post by Henne Vogelsang

Post by Henne Vogelsang
we are currently trying to reduce the amount of communication channels
we provide. Because of this I would like to merge the 4 architecture
lists into one list called opensuse-arch.
If nobody objects until the 15th of November 12:00 UTC I will merge the
lists. You don't have to do anything except rewriting your filter if you
use one.

I would definitive unsubscribe from such a list if the majority of mails is
not interessting for me.

The ppc, amd64 and ia64 lists didn't have any traffic in 2010 and 2011.
I would like to have some point for people to go for non x86
architecture specific stuff.

There was some recent activity to revive ppc openSUSE, so if arm stays
ppc should probably stay as well.
amd64 is mainstream now, so that's different I guess.

I agree.
I think it's best to have separate mailing lists for different architectures.
I think traffic wise it also safes bandwidth. Only people that are
interested in a specific mailing list will get this mail and not traffic
they don't want.
The ppc mailing list will be very interesting again when the AmigaOne
X1000 and Netbook will be released.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOne_X1000
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=781936
If this ends up in an active mailing list where also ARM resides it's
difficult to filter, I'm subscribed to both.

If / when the AmigaOne X1000 arrives there will certainly be a new PPC
platform, but whether we can persuade the community to re-start the PPC
version of openSuSE Linux is another matter entirely. FWIW, the argument
for dropping it a few years back was that the usage had dwindled to
insignificant numbers (ISTR around 20 downloads / month) - I couldn't
really argue with that.
My expectation is that there won't be another official PPC version at
all, though maybe we'll have enough momentum for an unofficial one - in
which case retention of this list will be vindicated. It all depends on
whether the machine is ever launched - time will tell.
Meantime a merged list seems to me to be the wrong way to go: keep lists
that are active or might reasonably be expected to become so and kill
the others, effectively merging into -project and -factory.

Why not be the distro that also invites people who want to try other
distro's?
If you look at other distro's they are more inviting for people who want
to try other distro's.
http://lists.debian.org/ports.html
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo

Why not even add a opensuse-mips mailing-list for people in for instance
China who would like to work on a Loongson/Godson port.
I think this will pull more hardware gurus to our distro.

I think our current limiting approach set us behind other distro's on
supported archs. This is something we see now in the arm port. This might
happen again when another important architecture would appear.

I think we should get rid of the opensuse-amd86 mailing-list as it's x86.

One other thing I also don't understand is. WE currently build all ppc
packages as Factory. Why don't we also build a the iso's for the current
version, with the extra label unstable (so 12.1-unstable-ppc).

Now a newbie that is interested in openSuSE on his old Mac won't be able
to install openSuSE ppc due to the lack of a DVD. And therefor will move
on to another distro.

Post by Richard (MQ)
--
Cheers
Richard (MQ)
--

Regards,

Joop.

[Larry Stotler]

Post by Richard (MQ)
If / when the AmigaOne X1000 arrives there will certainly be a new PPC
platform, but whether we can persuade the community to re-start the PPC
version of openSuSE Linux is another matter entirely. FWIW, the argument for
dropping it a few years back was that the usage had dwindled to
insignificant numbers (ISTR around 20 downloads / month) - I couldn't really
argue with that.

Actually, a lot of PPC work is done because of SLEx. If POWER is
still supported in SLEx 12, then it shouldn't be a big issue to
actually restart the PPC port. The bigger problem is getting it to
work on the vast types of machines: Apple, RS/6000, PRep, CHRP, etc.
It's almost as bad as the ARM ports because of the differences in
machine types.

Post by Richard (MQ)
My expectation is that there won't be another official PPC version at all,
though maybe we'll have enough momentum for an unofficial one - in which
case retention of this list will be vindicated. It all depends on whether
the machine is ever launched - time will tell.

We still have powerpc.opensuse.org, but I haven't been able to do any
testing. I've had to deal with a lot of personal issues over the last
year or two, and that's kept me from doing more. However, I'm hoping
that is finally ending soon.

Post by Richard (MQ)
Meantime a merged list seems to me to be the wrong way to go: keep lists
that are active or might reasonably be expected to become so and kill the
others, effectively merging into -project and -factory.

Is it really that big of a deal to leave it be and see what happens?
Not really sure why it's so necessary to consider something dead when
it may rise up again unexpectedly. Fedora has found renewed interest,
and Debian still supports PPC, so a lot of testing has been done
elsewhere that could probably be used here.

[Karl Eichwalder]

Post by Larry Stotler

Post by Richard (MQ)
Meantime a merged list seems to me to be the wrong way to go: keep lists
that are active or might reasonably be expected to become so and kill the
others, effectively merging into -project and -factory.

Is it really that big of a deal to leave it be and see what happens?
Not really sure why it's so necessary to consider something dead when
it may rise up again unexpectedly.

Agreed. These arch lists are fine. Problematic are those general
purpose lists such as -factory, -marketing, -project, etc. But as long
as we do not create more of them, we can stand it. (I'm subscribe to
-factory only, though.)

[Joop Boonen]

Post by Karl Eichwalder

Post by Larry Stotler

Post by Richard (MQ)
Meantime a merged list seems to me to be the wrong way to go: keep lists
that are active or might reasonably be expected to become so and kill the
others, effectively merging into -project and -factory.

Is it really that big of a deal to leave it be and see what happens?
Not really sure why it's so necessary to consider something dead when
it may rise up again unexpectedly.

Agreed. These arch lists are fine. Problematic are those general
purpose lists such as -factory, -marketing, -project, etc. But as long
as we do not create more of them, we can stand it. (I'm subscribe to
-factory only, though.)

When we are at it, is it an option to add opensuse-mips?

Post by Karl Eichwalder
--
Karl Eichwalder SUSE LINUX Products GmbH
R&D / Documentation Maxfeldstraße 5
90409 Nürnberg, Germany
GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
--

Regards,

Joop.

[Marcus Meissner]

Post by Larry Stotler

Post by Richard (MQ)
If / when the AmigaOne X1000 arrives there will certainly be a new PPC
platform, but whether we can persuade the community to re-start the PPC
version of openSuSE Linux is another matter entirely. FWIW, the argument for
dropping it a few years back was that the usage had dwindled to
insignificant numbers (ISTR around 20 downloads / month) - I couldn't really
argue with that.

Actually, a lot of PPC work is done because of SLEx. If POWER is
still supported in SLEx 12, then it shouldn't be a big issue to
actually restart the PPC port. The bigger problem is getting it to
work on the vast types of machines: Apple, RS/6000, PRep, CHRP, etc.
It's almost as bad as the ARM ports because of the differences in
machine types.

Post by Richard (MQ)
My expectation is that there won't be another official PPC version at all,
though maybe we'll have enough momentum for an unofficial one - in which
case retention of this list will be vindicated. It all depends on whether
the machine is ever launched - time will tell.

We still have powerpc.opensuse.org, but I haven't been able to do any
testing. I've had to deal with a lot of personal issues over the last
year or two, and that's kept me from doing more. However, I'm hoping
that is finally ending soon.

Post by Richard (MQ)
Meantime a merged list seems to me to be the wrong way to go: keep lists
that are active or might reasonably be expected to become so and kill the
others, effectively merging into -project and -factory.

Is it really that big of a deal to leave it be and see what happens?
Not really sure why it's so necessary to consider something dead when
it may rise up again unexpectedly. Fedora has found renewed interest,
and Debian still supports PPC, so a lot of testing has been done
elsewhere that could probably be used here.

openSUSE:Factory:PowerPC as available on powerpc.opensuse.org is at least
still building.

My machine is running it, I am however updating in place.

Installation needs to be tested and likely bugfixed.

Ciao, Marcus

[Dinar Valeev]

Post by Marcus Meissner

Post by Richard (MQ)
If / when the AmigaOne X1000 arrives there will certainly be a new PPC
platform, but whether we can persuade the community to re-start the PPC
version of openSuSE Linux is another matter entirely. FWIW, the argument for
dropping it a few years back was that the usage had dwindled to
insignificant numbers (ISTR around 20 downloads / month) - I couldn't really
argue with that.

Actually, a lot of PPC work is done because of SLEx.  If POWER is
still supported in SLEx 12, then it shouldn't be a big issue to
actually restart the PPC port.  The bigger problem is getting it to
work on the vast types of machines:  Apple, RS/6000, PRep, CHRP, etc.
It's almost as bad as the ARM ports because of the differences in
machine types.

Post by Richard (MQ)
My expectation is that there won't be another official PPC version at all,
though maybe we'll have enough momentum for an unofficial one - in which
case retention of this list will be vindicated. It all depends on whether
the machine is ever launched - time will tell.

We still have powerpc.opensuse.org, but I haven't been able to do any
testing.  I've had to deal with a lot of personal issues over the last
year or two, and that's kept me from doing more.  However, I'm hoping
that is finally ending soon.

Post by Richard (MQ)
Meantime a merged list seems to me to be the wrong way to go: keep lists
that are active or might reasonably be expected to become so and kill the
others, effectively merging into -project and -factory.

Is it really that big of a deal to leave it be and see what happens?
Not really sure why it's so necessary to consider something dead when
it may rise up again unexpectedly.  Fedora has found renewed interest,
and Debian still supports PPC, so a lot of testing has been done
elsewhere that could probably be used here.

openSUSE:Factory:PowerPC as available on powerpc.opensuse.org is at least
still building.
My machine is running it, I am however updating in place.
Installation needs to be tested and likely bugfixed.

Even we have some movements here. KIWI on Power, KVM in testing and so on.

Post by Marcus Meissner
Ciao, Marcus
--

[Karl Eichwalder]

Post by Henne Vogelsang
The ppc, amd64 and ia64 lists didn't have any traffic in 2010 and 2011.
I would like to have some point for people to go for non x86
architecture specific stuff.

What about to drop them in that case?

I was also about to propose this.

I think people still can ask on -factory when they want to discuss on any of
these architectures.

Yes, exactly.

"Merging" MLs and creating a new name is generally problematic. "Closing"
MLs is ok, if you think it makes sense (subject is dead or could be
discussed else well.

[Joop Boonen]

Post by Karl Eichwalder

Post by Larry Stotler

Post by Richard (MQ)
Meantime a merged list seems to me to be the wrong way to go: keep lists
that are active or might reasonably be expected to become so and kill the
others, effectively merging into -project and -factory.

Is it really that big of a deal to leave it be and see what happens?

Not really sure why it's so necessary to consider something dead when
it may rise up again unexpectedly.

Post by Karl Eichwalder
Agreed. These arch lists are fine. Problematic are those general

purpose lists such as -factory, -marketing, -project, etc. But as long
as we do not create more of them, we can stand it. (I'm subscribe to
-factory only, though.)

When we are at it, is it an option to add opensuse-mips?

Post by Karl Eichwalder
--
Karl Eichwalder SUSE LINUX Products GmbH

R&D / Documentation Maxfeldstraße 5

Post by Karl Eichwalder
90409 Nürnberg, Germany
GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
--

Regards,

Joop.