No More Official PPC Distro

[Larry Stotler]

Just got this answer from a bugzilla
posting(https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557580) from
Michael Loeffler about why there wasn't a PPC version of 11.2:

"we (Novell/SUSE employees) won't provide a ppc distribution anymore. The effort
for such a code stream is not justified by 0.3% out of all installations (see
Distribution of architecture at http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics).
Nevertheless we will support anyone who'd like to take over the task to build
an openSUSE ppc distribution."

So, what's the interest in trying to keep the PowerPC port alive?
With such a small user base, I agree it doesn't make sense for them to
continue to do it(although I was under the impression that the POWER
port of SLEx was based on openSUSE so I'm not sure what the status of
that is going to be either).

I have several viable Powermacs that can run openSUSE. Peter Czanik
uses it on a Pegasos PPC machine.

So, what's the interest? I'm not sure how much help I can be other
than testing but I'd like to find out who else is using or wanting to
use openSUSE on PPC.

Thanx

[Thomas Nielsen]

This is a real shame (please ignore my email domain - I am writing as a user) i loved OpenSUSE on my Sony PS3, and it was almost there with Xfce (and I still have an Intel X25 SSD planned for the PS3). But it looks almost like binfodder now. To my experience YDL is that they always are a bit behind in the kernel versions etc, so its no fun :-/
Game over.
Thomas
Just got this answer from a bugzilla
posting(https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557580) from
Michael Loeffler about why there wasn't a PPC version of 11.2:

"we (Novell/SUSE employees) won't provide a ppc distribution anymore. The effort
for such a code stream is not justified by 0.3% out of all installations (see
Distribution of architecture at http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics).
Nevertheless we will support anyone who'd like to take over the task to build
an openSUSE ppc distribution."

So, what's the interest in trying to keep the PowerPC port alive?
With such a small user base, I agree it doesn't make sense for them to
continue to do it(although I was under the impression that the POWER
port of SLEx was based on openSUSE so I'm not sure what the status of
that is going to be either).

I have several viable Powermacs that can run openSUSE. Peter Czanik
uses it on a Pegasos PPC machine.

So, what's the interest? I'm not sure how much help I can be other
than testing but I'd like to find out who else is using or wanting to
use openSUSE on PPC.

Thanx
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+***@opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+***@opensuse.org

[Peter Czanik]

Hello,

Post by Larry Stotler
I have several viable Powermacs that can run openSUSE. Peter Czanik
uses it on a Pegasos PPC machine.

And on some EFIKA machines (Freescale MPC5200) and an MPC8610 developer
system...

Post by Larry Stotler
So, what's the interest? I'm not sure how much help I can be other
than testing but I'd like to find out who else is using or wanting to
use openSUSE on PPC.

Right now only some occasional testing, as my second son was born this
spring so most of my time is dedicated to my family. I'll hopefully have
more time from next spring...
Bye,
CzP

[Luciano Mannucci]

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:30:28 -0500

Post by Larry Stotler
So, what's the interest in trying to keep the PowerPC port alive?

Well, it *prooves* that the distribution is portable.
If something new and good emerges hardwarewise, I know I will be
able to switch without changing distribution.
That said, another thing I foresee is that I'll personally have to
switch all my Apple PPC machines to linux sooner or later, for
leopard macos is becoming solwer and slower on that platform.
Of course, once I foind another suitable distro, I'll swtitch to
that one all my Intel machines too, not to have to follow upgrade
evolution twice.
And yes, that's a pity, it was such a good quality distribution...

Cheers,

luciano, SuSe Linux user since 5.2.

[Marcus Meissner]

Post by Luciano Mannucci
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:30:28 -0500

Post by Larry Stotler
So, what's the interest in trying to keep the PowerPC port alive?

Well, it *prooves* that the distribution is portable.
If something new and good emerges hardwarewise, I know I will be
able to switch without changing distribution.
That said, another thing I foresee is that I'll personally have to
switch all my Apple PPC machines to linux sooner or later, for
leopard macos is becoming solwer and slower on that platform.
Of course, once I foind another suitable distro, I'll swtitch to
that one all my Intel machines too, not to have to follow upgrade
evolution twice.
And yes, that's a pity, it was such a good quality distribution...

openSUSE 11.1 is still supported for 1.5 more years.

And yes, someone else can of course pick it up!

Ciao, Marcus

[Richard (MQ)]

Post by Larry Stotler
So, what's the interest? I'm not sure how much help I can be other
than testing but I'd like to find out who else is using or wanting to
use openSUSE on PPC.

I've been using openSuSE on a 1999 G3 iMac (the iconic blue all-in-one
model) plus a G3 'Lombard' laptop from the same era. OSL 11.1 runs well
but if I'm honest neither machine is used much these days. The laptop
keyboard is a bit iffy which doesn't help.

We use a lot of PPC based embedded controllers for work (variously
running OS-9 or VxWorks) and I've long entertained plans to get it onto
one of them, this would be some way from trivial though as there's
neither a CD nor USB! This project would be with a colleague who also
has a G3 iMac as well as coding skills.

Good luck with setting it all up

[Thomas Nielsen]

Well let me add a few bits an pieces, that possibly everyone already knows, but for the few remaining, maybe it will make me look clever :-)

There IS an 11.2 ppc iso here:
http://powerpc.opensuse.org/factory/iso/
dated 14oct 2009
but only for the netinstall, but I do not see why it should work differently than the x86_64 netinstall, i recently successfully converted to a USB-netinstall using http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
There is still a /PS3 directory with this in it:
-rw-r--r-- 1 98 98 4189897 Jan 11 2009 otheros.bld

so I think many doors are open - only the future is uncertain - as always

and now that i have it downloadet - why not . . . . . .


Thomas

Post by Larry Stotler
So, what's the interest? I'm not sure how much help I can be other
than testing but I'd like to find out who else is using or wanting to
use openSUSE on PPC.

I've been using openSuSE on a 1999 G3 iMac (the iconic blue all-in-one
model) plus a G3 'Lombard' laptop from the same era. OSL 11.1 runs well
but if I'm honest neither machine is used much these days. The laptop
keyboard is a bit iffy which doesn't help.

We use a lot of PPC based embedded controllers for work (variously
running OS-9 or VxWorks) and I've long entertained plans to get it onto
one of them, this would be some way from trivial though as there's
neither a CD nor USB! This project would be with a colleague who also
has a G3 iMac as well as coding skills.

Good luck with setting it all up
--
Richard (MQ)
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+***@opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+***@opensuse.org

[Larry Stotler]

I've updated the ***@SUSE page to reflect this change:

http://en.opensuse.org/POWER%40SUSE

Maybe we can get a list of hardware that people have used openSUSE on.
I, like many others, have ran openSUSE on my PowerMac hardware but I
don't use any of the machines on any kind of regular basis. So, I,
like others, have to consider how much time and support I can offer to
continue PPC support as well.

I have the following PowerMac machines and the last version of
openSUSE I used on them:

Powerbook Wallstreet G3/266 - v11.0
PowerMac G4/466(Digital Audio) - Installing factory now
PowerMac G3(2) one with a G4 - openSUSE 10.3
PowerMac G3 All-In-One G3/266(and G) - openSUSE 10,2
PowerMac 6500 603e/225 - Successfully installed v11.0/Beta 3 (SLOW -
128MB RAM Max)
PowerMac 9600/300 G4/700 - openSUSE 11.0

I have other PowerPPC based macs(6400, Powerbook 3400c, etc) that just
don't have the resources to run the current openSUSE release.

I've found that a faster G3 or a G4 is definately a need for running
Linux on PPC.

And, there is always NetBSD. I've played with their PPC ports as well.

[Peter Czanik]

Hello,

Post by Richard (MQ)
We use a lot of PPC based embedded controllers for work (variously
running OS-9 or VxWorks) and I've long entertained plans to get it onto
one of them, this would be some way from trivial though as there's
neither a CD nor USB! This project would be with a colleague who also
has a G3 iMac as well as coding skills.

As long as Linux boots on the board in any form, it should not be
difficult. My first mpc5121e devel board only had serial port and
ethernet functional, and after a few days work, openSUSE booted on it :-)
Basically there are two possibilities:
- if the current SuSE kernel can't be patched to boot on the board, then
one can compile everything in a monster monolithic kernel to support
installation and booting. This approach worked with both openSUSE and
Debian/Ubuntu on the mpc5121e and other boards.
- if the current SuSE kernel can be configured and/or patched to boot on
a given board, then it is more elegant to use SuSE kernel sources with
default config + additional hw support (I used mkinstallinitrd or
something similar, I can't recall any more). This is what I used for the
mpc8610 developer system
Of course, one can skip creating an installer, when there is an
installed PPC system available. Just make a copy to NFS and boot a
kernel from TFTP. Possibilites are endless :-)
Once factory is synced out again and I got a little time, I try to port
it to my mpc8610 (G4 on lots of steroids :-) ) system, as that is my
fastest PPC machine at the moment.
Bye,
CzP

[Richard (MQ)]

Hi Peter

Post by Peter Czanik
Hello,

Post by Richard (MQ)
We use a lot of PPC based embedded controllers for work (variously
running OS-9 or VxWorks) and I've long entertained plans to get it onto
one of them, this would be some way from trivial though as there's
neither a CD nor USB! This project would be with a colleague who also
has a G3 iMac as well as coding skills.

As long as Linux boots on the board in any form, it should not be
difficult. My first mpc5121e devel board only had serial port and
ethernet functional, and after a few days work, openSUSE booted on it :-)
- if the current SuSE kernel can't be patched to boot on the board, then
one can compile everything in a monster monolithic kernel to support
installation and booting. This approach worked with both openSUSE and
Debian/Ubuntu on the mpc5121e and other boards.
- if the current SuSE kernel can be configured and/or patched to boot on
a given board, then it is more elegant to use SuSE kernel sources with
default config + additional hw support (I used mkinstallinitrd or
something similar, I can't recall any more). This is what I used for the
mpc8610 developer system
Of course, one can skip creating an installer, when there is an
installed PPC system available. Just make a copy to NFS and boot a
kernel from TFTP. Possibilites are endless :-)
Once factory is synced out again and I got a little time, I try to port
it to my mpc8610 (G4 on lots of steroids :-) ) system, as that is my
fastest PPC machine at the moment.
Bye,
CzP

Thanks for the hints - these systems all do have network and RS232
terminal, in some cases not much else. It could be an interesting challenge!

[Klaas.]

Post by Larry Stotler
Just got this answer from a bugzilla
posting(https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557580) from
"we (Novell/SUSE employees) won't provide a ppc distribution anymore. The effort
for such a code stream is not justified by 0.3% out of all installations (see
Distribution of architecture at http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics).
Nevertheless we will support anyone who'd like to take over the task to build
an openSUSE ppc distribution."
So, what's the interest in trying to keep the PowerPC port alive?
With such a small user base, I agree it doesn't make sense for them to
continue to do it(although I was under the impression that the POWER
port of SLEx was based on openSUSE so I'm not sure what the status of
that is going to be either).
I have several viable Powermacs that can run openSUSE. Peter Czanik
uses it on a Pegasos PPC machine.
So, what's the interest? I'm not sure how much help I can be other
than testing but I'd like to find out who else is using or wanting to
use openSUSE on PPC.

Thank you for your effort.

As I am looking for a road forward in view of the fact
that Apple dropped their PPC machines from support
I selected openSuse.

There is a G4 Mini - running openSuse 10.3 and regularly
updated. Not used every day but still very well on this
hardwar.
There is a G5 Dual 1.8 waiting to be useful again, and it
has a 11.1 installation but not good. The desktop keeps
reloading.

As for going to 11.2, all the iso's I downloaded wouldn't
boot. I'll wait and try the next factory distro as soon
as available.
In the meantime I am unclear about the factory process. Is
it just names like that because it is unclear what the
status of the code is? Or some other reason?

By the way, I have used YDL but they don't mention PPC
in their latest announcements I think.

greetings,
Klaas Punt

[Stephen Michael Kellat]

Sitting at a 7400 G4 as I type this, I can say that there remains some
interest. The biggest area would be in revitalizing old machines that
were otherwise disposed of as excess. Schools trying to wring a small
amount of worth out of older machines would also benefit.

Today's world is one where the x86 architecture is not absolutely
dominant. We're already seeing in the smartphone market the near
dominance of ARM architecture in devices. As those devices are becoming
essentially small portable computers first with telephone capability a
welded-on after-thought, the potential install base is becoming broader.
Strangely enough, Android is capable of running on any Power
Architecture architecture based handsets although I am not aware of any
out there right now.

Will there be a "mass market" in a few years with a single architecture
dominating? I don't know. Right now, the signs for the future are
uncertain. Keeping a PPC legacy intact at least provides good practice
for any potential world where no single architecture dominates.

Stephen Michael Kellat, MSLS
Sheffield Township, Ohio

Post by Klaas.

Post by Larry Stotler
Just got this answer from a bugzilla
posting(https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557580) from
"we (Novell/SUSE employees) won't provide a ppc distribution anymore. The effort
for such a code stream is not justified by 0.3% out of all installations (see
Distribution of architecture at http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics).
Nevertheless we will support anyone who'd like to take over the task to build
an openSUSE ppc distribution."
So, what's the interest in trying to keep the PowerPC port alive?
With such a small user base, I agree it doesn't make sense for them to
continue to do it(although I was under the impression that the POWER
port of SLEx was based on openSUSE so I'm not sure what the status of
that is going to be either).
I have several viable Powermacs that can run openSUSE. Peter Czanik
uses it on a Pegasos PPC machine.
So, what's the interest? I'm not sure how much help I can be other
than testing but I'd like to find out who else is using or wanting to
use openSUSE on PPC.

Thank you for your effort.
As I am looking for a road forward in view of the fact
that Apple dropped their PPC machines from support
I selected openSuse.
There is a G4 Mini - running openSuse 10.3 and regularly
updated. Not used every day but still very well on this
hardwar.
There is a G5 Dual 1.8 waiting to be useful again, and it
has a 11.1 installation but not good. The desktop keeps
reloading.
As for going to 11.2, all the iso's I downloaded wouldn't
boot. I'll wait and try the next factory distro as soon
as available.
In the meantime I am unclear about the factory process. Is
it just names like that because it is unclear what the
status of the code is? Or some other reason?
By the way, I have used YDL but they don't mention PPC
in their latest announcements I think.
greetings,
Klaas Punt
--

[Larry Stotler]

Post by Klaas.
Thank you for your effort.
As I am looking for a road forward in view of the fact
that Apple dropped their PPC machines from support
I selected openSuse.
There is a G4 Mini -  running openSuse 10.3 and regularly
updated. Not used every day but still very well on this
hardwar.
There is a G5 Dual 1.8 waiting to be useful again, and it
has a 11.1 installation but not good. The desktop keeps
reloading.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of 11.1. I'm still running 11.0 on my machine.
I've installed 11.2 on my son's but he likes KDE4 and I don't.

Post by Klaas.
As for going to 11.2, all the iso's I downloaded wouldn't
boot. I'll wait and try the next factory distro as soon
as available.
In the meantime I am unclear about the factory process. Is
it just names like that because it is unclear what the
status of the code is? Or some other reason?

Factory is the developement branch. All the Milstones(Betas and
Alphas) and snapshots of Facotry at a specific point. So are the
Release Candidates. The final version is split off from Factory
before the release. Then Factory moves on and becomes the development
platform for the next version. So, while 11.2 has kernel 2.30.x(or
whatever), Factory will move on to 2.31.x whatever.

Post by Klaas.
By the way, I have used YDL but they don't mention PPC
in their latest announcements I think.

Yellow Dog is POWER/PPC ONLY. Always has been. They are selling
machines made by their parent company that are G5 based.

Power Workstation - http://www.fixstars.com/en/products/powerstation/specs.html

Cell based PCIe board - http://www.fixstars.com/en/products/gigaaccel180/

IBM POWER Blades - http://www.fixstars.com/en/products/bladecenter/qs22/

Unfortunately, the Core2 and Core i7's are considered to be much
faster overall than the G5's. The Real "Power" chips are the Power5 &
Power6 and derivatives.

[Greg Freemyer]

Post by Klaas.
Thank you for your effort.
As I am looking for a road forward in view of the fact
that Apple dropped their PPC machines from support
I selected openSuse.
There is a G4 Mini -  running openSuse 10.3 and regularly
updated. Not used every day but still very well on this
hardwar.
There is a G5 Dual 1.8 waiting to be useful again, and it
has a 11.1 installation but not good. The desktop keeps
reloading.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of 11.1.  I'm still running 11.0 on my machine.
I've installed 11.2 on my son's but he likes KDE4 and I don't.

Post by Klaas.
As for going to 11.2, all the iso's I downloaded wouldn't
boot. I'll wait and try the next factory distro as soon
as available.
In the meantime I am unclear about the factory process. Is
it just names like that because it is unclear what the
status of the code is? Or some other reason?

Factory is the developement branch.  All the Milstones(Betas and
Alphas) and snapshots of Facotry at a specific point.  So are the
Release Candidates.  The final version is split off from Factory
before the release.  Then Factory moves on and becomes the development
platform for the next version.  So, while 11.2 has kernel 2.30.x(or
whatever), Factory will move on to 2.31.x whatever.

Factory is already moving forward toward 11.3 as you say.

And a Roadmap already exists: http://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap

Dec. 12 is the first milestone release. Don't be surprised if it has
major issues. The early milestones are not expected to be stable.
They are mostly useful for having a reference in bugzilla etc.

Greg

[Patrick Shanahan]

Post by Greg Freemyer
Factory is already moving forward toward 11.3 as you say.

iiuc, factory *is* 11.3 (very early, MS 0)

Post by Greg Freemyer
And a Roadmap already exists: http://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap
Dec. 12 is the first milestone release. Don't be surprised if it has
major issues. The early milestones are not expected to be stable.
They are mostly useful for having a reference in bugzilla etc.

It surely will not be less usable than it is now and I have *only* one
major issue at present, yast is *unusable* if I want to use spamassassin
and/or apache2-mod_perl.